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Transcript of Conversation Between Patarkatsishvili and Kodua
/ 29 Dec.'07 / 18:31

Source: the Georgian Presidentís Administration

What follows is a transcript of part of an alleged conversation between Badri Patarkatsishvili and an Interior Ministry official, Irakli Kodua, which was taped covertly during a meeting in Patarkatsishviliís mansion in Surrey, Britain, on December 23. The Georgian authorities have nor released the full version of the conversation. Patarkatsishvili has confirmed meeting Kodua and offering him USD 100 million in exchange for defecting from the authorities. He denied, however, that the bribe was in connection to an alleged coup plot and claimed instead that his intention was to uncover what he said were official plans to rig the election.

Patarkatsishvili: I donít want to call things their names now. If youíd like, we can go outside, Iíd like you to feel comfortable.

Kodua: No problem.

P: Here, for instance, we are protected against everythingÖ In this circumstances, I donít have right to do something [improperly]. Sorry that you had been searched before you entered here. Simply, I canít let myself to make a mistake. Thatís why everythingís maximally ďcleanedĒ here.

As soon as Misha comes out and says, he has won [the elections], the active electorate will attack Misha. The higher percentage Misha claims he got, the higher will be the level of aggression.  Of course, here is another moment too: an internal rift (inside the ruling elite) should begin. And the appearance of the rift is one of the crucial components of this construction. This is a simple as 2 and 2 equals 4. When this internal rift begins, [they] are finished absolutely. I mean the internal rift in the group. Today [Mathew] Bryza is the only who helps Misha and than Daniel Fried as the superior of Bryza. They help him. He has no one to protect him. Above them, he has no other protector. Why do they help him? This is their project. And thatís why they donít want to loose together with Misha. This is the only [reason]. He has no other protectors. And thatís why theyíll turn their back to Misha, they would turn their back to Misha at once, as for them the important issue is not MishaÖ they donít care about Misha.

K: Say, elections end on5th [January] and on 6th they declare Misha as the winner, then what should we do?

P: Nothing, I think that the people will decide there, wonít they? They werenít clever enough, they gathered 150000 people in the streets, and then let them go. They are stupid arenít they?
Everything could have been finished on the same day. Those people didnít come out to the streets to see Levana [Gachechiladze] and Shaliko [Natelashvili], those people didnít come out for that, they did come to do the concrete job. Thatís it.

K: To tell the truth [for Saakashvili], ďGrechikhaĒ [Gachechiladze] and others are not the competitors.

P: Itís clear, but there is the second moment here.

K: (Inaudible)

P: there is the second moment here. You donít have to explain this. All these will be settled, all theseÖ all these are the matter of time only and to my mind all these will be settled in this week.
Out of [opposition] there will be one candidate left, of course. Of course, this will be the case, without question. So when this happensÖ people get prepared today. The situation is different. People get prepared today. And today you canít even buy weapon in Tbilisi, because everybody gets prepared, everybody understands that something happens. As to the MVD (Ministry of Internal Affairs), you are here and I think there are concrete means forÖ

K: I donít know whether you are aware of what we talked with [MP] Valery [Gelbakhiani, Patarkatsishvili allly]Ö I donít know whether he told you or not.

P: He told me that there is a serious offer and that the meeting is necessary and here I am. So, tell me what kind of resources you have in order to get some understanding of your capabilities.

K: 7 000 [persons] out of 10 000 are mine.

P: How many serve at MIA? How many battalions are there and so on?

K: So, there are two special purpose units, one Shavnabada, one mine. There are two special purpose units.

P:  So, you control both of them. There are only two.

K: There are also conscripts, nearly 1000. 

P: Iím the lovely grandpa in Georgia, theyíd better ask my background in Russia, where they know me differently, I havenít made a shot yet. Iím absolutely ready to negotiate. So, if we negotiate, I fulfill everything what I say, exactly what we negotiate. If something requires further changes, we will sit down and settle things together. Iím offering the simple thing.

K: Yeah.

P: If you could tell me what you can do to make your mission easier. I am ready to do everything to what you want.

K: Badri, Iíll tell you directlyÖ

P: Absolutely, pleaseÖ

K: He himself tolled me that he was here and talked with you. I tell you what Valery tolled meÖ that I should visit you and talk about everything. The talk was aboutÖ that this may happen on 6th, that you may loose electionsÖ this may happen.

P: I see.

K: That the only force is MIA. Well actually MIA is the force, isnít it?  They are afraid of it. He told me that I must take the power. I have necessary recourses for that, but there is one ďIFĒ- the minister. I discussed this issue with Valery. He told me that I should go to the minister and detain himÖ he told me so.

P: He told me that as well.

K: This may entail certain consequences, I told this to Valery, because the minister will have at least 25 men on that day, from 20 to 25 bodyguards, to go and grab him just like thatÖ is very difficult, in fact something may happen there.

P: Will this be a problem?

K: Yes, it will be a problem since a skirmish may occur, I canít say that the Minister will stay unharmed. He may get a shot in a leg or something, he wonít die, I guarantee that, but 7-8 of his bodyguards wonít beck up, thatís for sure. When I enter the room something will happen there, someone may die. Iím just saying how things will be, I have told Valery bout this and he said that this is their responsibility.

P: We are not children; I fully understand what we are talking about. This is the only way, we must show him power, and there is no other way. When he has got 10 or 20 people and you go with 200 people against him, everything will be over, they are not that crazy, the Minister himself will tell them ďguys stopĒ.

K: Those guys are a bit different.

P: You must go to Vano, and talk to him, you must tell him that this is the situation and that he must summon all peace people and they must give up arms.

K: And if he refuses?

P: If he refuses, you will arrest him. Thatís all, everything is over. He refuses, you arrest him.

K: Let me tell you, h will happen there in my opinion, When I go there and sagest him that, he will refuse, then something will happen there in his room, Iím sure about that, I know those guys.

P: Vanoís people?

K: Yes, I know his bodyguards.

P: They wonít surrender.

K: They wonít, this is for sure, those guys will die for the cause, we must figure out something else, there must be another way, and everything has a better solution.

P: Of course. Is it possible to put them to sleep or something?

K: To put them to sleep? Yes, there are means to do that, but they are not as effective as they can not knock a person out immediately, that happens only in the movies you knowÖ

P: I understand that, of courseÖ you can knock a person out immediately only if you make an injection to him, but youíll have to reach to him to do that.

K: No, you cannot reach themÖ

P: Thatís what Iím saying.

K: If you have ever been there at his office, you know you have to pass one room with four people, than another room with people and so on, if you go to the Ministry, you have to take at least 100-150 people or so, therefore you cannot go there dressed up in a suit, you have to enter there under cover.

P: Of, course.

K: If you go there like that everybody will ask: Kodua has come with so many people, what is happening? This is a great risk.

P: Of courseÖ listen, I can lay down all this and I need, probably two or three days to figure out absolutely everything. What resources will we have toÖ?

K: Are there any means of communication?

P: Thatís what Iím saying. Telephone and means like that are out of the question.

K: I have relations with Valery. I can see Valery so that he [Merabishvili] wonít learn about that.

P: Of course.

K: Therefore, Valery should know what to tell me.

P: One of the possibilities is that this will happen on 6th of January; another possibility is that everything may happen earlier. Will this somehow change the plans? Because if this happens earlier, the situation may be more favorable than on January 6th. Before 6th of January he will have only seven bodyguards and this makes the situation favorable to us, and after 5th of January, he will have them on high alert.

K: Yes.

P: As for the form and the rest, I will go through everything and lay down a legitimate sequence of steps. Because what else do I want? I want to keep ourselves in a legal frame, because ultimately you should be a hero Ė a hero that did not give that terrible monster a chance to encroach upon the country. Everything will be decided reasoning from that. I will provide you by Thursday. Today is Sunday, I have meeting right now and by that time, I will be informed about the situation in the army and so forth, because everything has its own... This is just one segment and there are other segments, right? Thatís why everything has to add up to a coherent plan. Hence, I will be ready to provide you with all the information by Thursday. This is one possibility. Another possibility is that if this information is revealed, you must know, I will never say that we had this plans. Itís better to say this right now.

P: And third, about the money. Valery told me that you want 100 millions. I think thatís a very big sum of money, but I assume that if we weigh it, it equals to the risk. We talk about US dollars.

K: Yeah.

P: Hence Iím ready to agree on this sum. Second, Iím ready to transfer some money as a prepayment to your account and this money will be available to you in case if we achieve that goal. I mean, itíll be on your account but youíll be able to use it when... Weíll find the way how to do it so that youíll be absolutely satisfied. Afterwards, Iíll need some firms registered officially and Iíll also need signatures. Someone from your group must bring them to me in Israel. Iíll give you now the phone number of my guy whom heíll call and tell a password which weíll say now... (Inaudible) and your surname. Badri Kodua, right? First letter will be from Badri. It will be followed by the name from your surname Ė B then K...Heíll say this password and this will mean that they must meet to... This is the guy to whom Gyorgi was writing messages or calling, Anatoly.

K: Yes. And whatís his surname?

P: Motkin. And third, something I consider very important, whatever happens, it doesnít matter itíll be this way or that way, youíll be guaranteed that your family will be completely taken care of. It doesnít matter how everything will be finished... it doesnít matter at all. You can be absolutely sure about this.

K: If people will vote... They are trying so much and doing their best to... people is crowd... (Inaudible).

P: Iíll tell you one simple thing about that. We must have one or two bags with the ballots. It doesnít matter whether theyíre real or false. We must have couple of bags with the ballots which youíll show to the public and say ďwhat can I do, Iím a son of this country and I canít do thisĒ. Thatís it. The most sure and the easiest way. Therefore it doesnít matter who votes for whom. I donít care at all. After this, everything will be easy.

K: Should I be involved?

P: Sure. The whole world will see this. Afterwards, everything will be put aside. You must show the most important thing [to the public and the world] that they gave those [ballots] to you, so that the police throw them inside [the ballot-box].  Afterwards, you must become a hero; [show] that there was one guy who couldnít do such a thing. Then it will be followed by positive comments by Giorgi [Targamadze] that ďheĒ [Kodua] called me and notified that there were some problems...Ē All these will come afterwards... that there was a man who is the real son of this nation who couldnít do such a thing anymore... and he got tired of all this. Weíll figure out everything well.  Iíve got the people whoíll do it well. What means do you have to bring the money inside the country?

K: Itís a bit difficult... Itís possible through the border.

P: Do you have people who will carry them through the border?

K: It depends who will...

P: It doesnít matter.

K: I can for example...

P: Not much is needed. There is the issue of salaries... I just donít want you to have problems because of minor things...

K: Itís not a problem.

P: So, one, two or three millions wonít be a problem?

K: Armenia isnít a problem. So, Turkey is a problem.

P: Turkey doesnít suit me.

K: Poti is not a problem.

P: So, Poti is not a problem?

K: No, Poti isnít if a ferry arrives.

P: What about airports?

K: You know, this is a huge amount of money to carry with in cash. To bring the money with the case will be difficult.

P: Yeah, itís a big case.

P: Yeah.

K: there will be too many questions. Iíll bring them in but there will be the question: why? Why do you bring such case in this situation?

P: I see.

K: Iíll put the money in my car there. Iím responsible for. (inaudible) Iíll cross the border, but I canít drive further.

P: I see.

K: Iíll cross the border, drive 5-10 km, heíll be waiting for me, gives me it and I return.

P: Ok, ok.

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